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“With any cropping system, you want to have success and build on successes. If there’s a negative return on investment, that’s not wonderful.” — Betsy Bower
If you’re looking to figure out no-till farming in Indiana, Betsy Bower is a good person to ask.
Bower has almost three decades of experience working with Indiana farmers to improve yields. In 2016, she won a No-Till Innovator Award for Business and Services for her work with Lafayette, Ind., based Ceres Solutions Cooperative Inc., and a 2002 recipient of the Indiana Certified Crop Adviser of the Year. In 2018, Ceres Solutions won the Indiana Association of Soil and Water Conservation Districts’ Friend of Conservation Award.
Bower always viewed agriculture as the way forward. She jokes that while animals move and can be dangerous, plants stay where you plant them. Bower has a bachelor’s degree in agronomy from Purdue University, and a masters in agronomy from the University of Nebraska before starting as a crop specialist working for a national agronomy outfit.
Today’s episode of the No-Till Innovators and Influencers is a rebroadcast of a 2020 conversation Bower had with No-Till Farmer’s Executive Editor Julia Gerlach. In it, Bower discusses leveraging technology to improve yields, the potential for biological farming improvements, cover crops, and more.
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Full Transcript
Brian O'Connor:
Welcome to the latest episode of No-Till Farmer Influencers & Innovators. I'm Brian O'Connor, lead content editor for No-Till Farmer. New Leaf Symbiotics sponsors this program, featuring stories about the past, present and future of no-till farming. I encourage you to subscribe to this series, which is available in iTunes, Google podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Tune In Radio. Subscribing will allow you to receive an alert about upcoming episodes as soon as are released. I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, New Leaf Symbiotics for supporting our No-Till Farmer Influencers & Innovators podcast series. Want to do more with your fields in 2022? Now available in convenient planner box application Terrasym by New Leaf Symbiotics is proven BEX 2021 PFR to improve yield by 2.7 bushels per acre in soybeans, and 4.6 bushels per acre in corn. And that's $20,000 more in incremental income with every 1,000 acres planted. To calculate your return on investment for the 2022 growing season, and purchase Terrasym directly online for only $4.35 per acre.
Brian O'Connor:
Visit newleafsim.com\2022. That's newleaf, S-Y-M.com\2022. If you're looking to figure out no-till farming in Indiana, Betsy Bauer is a good person to ask. Bauer has almost three decades of experience working with Indiana farmers to improve yields. In 2016, she won a no-till innovator award for business and services for her work with Lafayette Indiana Based Ceres Solutions Cooperative Inc. And in 2002 received the Indiana certified crop advisor of the year award. In 2018, Ceres Solutions won the Indiana Association of Soil And Water Conservation districts, friend of conservation award. Bauer always viewed agriculture as the way forward. She jokes that while animals move and can be dangerous, plants stay where you put them. Bower earned a bachelor's degree in agronomy from Purdue and a master's in agronomy from the University of Nebraska before starting as a crop specialist, working for a national agronomy outfit. Today's episode of the No-Till Innovative & Influencers podcast is a rebroadcast of a 2020 conversation Bauer had with No-Till Farmer's executive editor, Julia Garlock. In it, Bauer discusses leveraging technology to improve yields, the potential for biological farming improvements, cover crops, and more.
Betsy Bauer:
I have been an agronomist for over 26 years. Being involved in agriculture was always something that I wanted to do. It was just something that was... My dad happened to work for an ag retailer, and I saw it and was an Ag teacher. So I sort of followed him and his interests. Although those interests were mine as well. And from about the age of four, I knew that I needed to do something in agriculture. Didn't quite know exactly what it was at the time, and then agronomy really interested me. And so as I looked at opportunities and that was several years back, it just... My thought was with animals, they move, they can be dangerous. All of those good things. And plants sort of stay where you put them, they may not always be healthy, but they sort of stay there.
Betsy Bauer:
And so that I got interested in identifying weeds and just, and how crops work. And so I went to Purdue and got a degree in agronomy, thought that I needed a little extra background to work with farmers one on one. So I got master's in agronomy from the University of Nebraska. And so from there, I came back to Indiana and became what was called a crop specialist. A lot of times that term is what you refer to agronomist, but we looked at the crop specialist as the agronomist, the one with a little bit more technical detail. So I started out as a crop specialist, working with farmers, one on one with crop nutrition and crop protection, and whatever they were trying to be successful at. And so I worked for a national company by the name of Zeneca, then that was ruled into Syngenta. And as we all know, Syngenta has changed over the years.
Betsy Bauer:
I came back to Growers Co-op at the time as an agronomist. And at that time, some of the other larger cooperatives were employing agronomists. An agronomist is one that helps the whole organization understand agronomy programs. So I was on the technical arm, which means that if a farmer's got a specific issue that a crop specialist may not have... Don't feel that they have the background, they call me, or it also helps us sort of be more efficient overall with our agronomic programs, by helping choose the best things for our set of growers or our soil situations, et cetera. And so I've been an agronomist ever since. Growers Co-op did merge with two other cooperatives to become Serious Solution. And so I've been with Ceres Solutions ever since. And in fact Ceres Solutions does have three agronomists on staff. We cover different territories within Ceres Solutions. Ceres Solutions is an organization that's sort of up and down the Western side of Indiana to North Central Indiana and five or six counties in Michigan.
Julia Garlock:
And were you the first agronomist for Ceres Solutions?
Betsy Bauer:
As Ceres Solutions merged from the three cooperatives, there was another agronomist on staff, and then when we merged with North Central Co-op, then there was another agronomist on staff. Just say I was the first at growers co-op, but not at Ceres Solutions.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. Okay. Got you.
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah.
Julia Garlock:
Okay. And so you have said that no two days are really alike in your job. Can you just give us a sense of the range of different things that you do in a typical week or month or even a year?
Betsy Bauer:
As an agronomist, again, as I've indicated, I'm sort of the technical arm, but I do have some direct responsibilities with our irrigation services. And so some of the things that I'm going to be working on regarding the irrigation services is we use soil moisture probes to determine when we need to irrigate. We also pair that with some tissue sampling and soil sampling so that we can make a better [inaudible 00:07:06] recommendation. And I'm pretty proud of that program because we've been able to reduce our front loaded of nitrogen and some of our irrigated crops and pushed that into the cropping season a little bit more. So we get a little bit more efficient use of that fertilizer input. We're also a little bit more sure that because you've got a growing plant, we're going to get it into the crop.
Betsy Bauer:
And so it's been a program that I think has fit our irrigated customer quite well, we will be doing tissue sampling, soil sampling in season, so that we're monitoring that in season nutrition in the crop, and where that nitrogen is in the soil. There might be extra needed nutrition or there may not be. And that's some of the things that we're trying to monitor. So we do a lot of taking a test, learning what the test has to say to help us make that recommendation. Not always are we just putting a prophylactic application of nutrition on, because we think we need it. We're measuring it so that we've got a better idea of what that customer needs. And so in the summertime, it's heavily geared at that growing crop, some of my work is, as well as doing some of the diagnostics on the farm, answering questions by phone from customers, and from our crop specialists on various issues during the year.
Betsy Bauer:
And so it could be anything from crop protection to crop nutrition, to cover crops, to conservation systems, no-till to conventional till. Just a wide range of agronomy topics. In the fall, we're typically planning that next season in our planning mode, so to speak. Looking at the result of last year's crop with some of the additions that we made, or some of the services that we offered, and then deciding what's going to fit for our customers going next year. And the weather time, it's heavily planning loaded. So working with growers one on one on, they may have made their nutrition decision, they may have made their seed decision, they may have made their crop protection decision, but there's times that you can really dive into some of the things that they want to do long term on their farm.
Betsy Bauer:
So there's a few branches that take me with them one on one, and we just do a deep into directions that a customer wants to go. And some of those decisions might not change for the coming year, but customers need to be thinking about that next step for their operation two or three years and ahead, because you change one thing on the farm and it's going to also change other aspects of the farm. So they really need to get their arms wrapped around it to make those decisions. So that's sort of a year in a nutshell with doing some of the agronomics in the season, following up and getting ready for our next season, as well as helping farmers plan overall and on all aspects of corn and soybean, wheat agronomy.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. Okay. And so do you even get in depth selecting varieties or hybrids with some of them or no?
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah. That's not really my strong suit. Crop nutrition, protecting the crop, the irrigated acre. Some of those are going to be more my specialties and that's what... At Ceres Solutions, each one of our agronomists has a different specialty. So all of our prep specialists have access to any of us, but they also understand, "Okay, Betsy deals with weed in the Southern part of the state, she probably has a little bit better idea of how we make the decisions on wheat." And so they might call me on wheat or other aspects, yeah.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. Okay. And I'm sort of curious, with COVID this year have a lot of your meetings and whatnot gone virtual, or are you still doing a lot of face to face with the farmers?
Betsy Bauer:
Well, it depends on the comfort level of the farmer. We are using Zoom meetings to work. We work with Truterra of Land O'Lakes. And that is a program that can easily be done by a Zoom meeting where we can discuss a farmer's crop production practices and his conservation practices all in sort of one little vehicle. And we did do a lot of that. But we're doing in some one-on-one meetings on the farm, and trying to stay socially distanced. There's nothing like working with people one-on-one, but it certainly is at the comfort level of our customer. And I am sure to ask at the outset, "How could a meeting take place that is to your comfort level?"
Julia Garlock:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Betsy Bauer:
We know that in Indiana agriculture is one of the important industries. And so COVID didn't affect us as much because as an industry of producing food, we just didn't have some of those things that we needed to do that other industries have done. That's not to say that we aren't careful, that we do not.. We wear masks, we socially distance, we do all of those things and keep our people and our customers safe.
Julia Garlock:
Sure. Okay. Good. I'm glad you mentioned that Truterra. I was just curious, can you just talk about that program a little bit more, and what are some of the insights that farmers are gaining from that tool?
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah. Truterra is an online platform by Land O'Lakes. It allows us to document cropping practices on the farm, the types of tillage, the use of cover crops, how a customer harvests a crop. Does he start with harvest early and then dry his corn? What are his yields? What is his nutrient management program? Does he split apply in? Does he use nitrogen stabilizers? What type of crop protection does he use? Is he using conservation practice like filter strips or any of those... In the south, we do a lot of, any of the conservations, the NRCS conservation practices. We'll put it at that. And so it sort of folds that up in one program, documents that, and then the underlaying forces are the natural lay of the land, the landscape. And so it allows us to gain insights on his cropping practices, on his landscape to get a feel for what is the average soil loss due to his cropping practices?
Betsy Bauer:
Are we improving soil quality overall with practices? What are the average net GHD or greenhouse gas emissions? Are there things that we can do to improve an insight score? What is the insight score for a particular field? And are there things that we can do to the insight score if the customer will do so? It's a program that allows us not only to document, but then have a better conservation conversation on the farm. And so that has been sort of some of the key take homes. The guys that are enrolled in our program are doing a lot of conservation practices. They look at it as an opportunity to document what they're doing. If they're growing white corn, and they think that they're where they're selling their white corn, that's using that corn. If they think that there's going to be a premium at some point in time, they want to start documenting those practices now. So they're looking at it as a way to start to take advantage of some of the things that they're doing on a farm and documenting it for future need.
Julia Garlock:
Okay. And so that's a program, they have access to that data all the time. They can [crosstalk 00:15:09]?
Betsy Bauer:
They can. Yeah, yeah. They can get a login themselves. We do help put the data in, that's sort of... At this point in time so what's the value proposition to a farmer? Not getting paid for an insight score as of yet, but those that are in understand that on down with some of the sustainability discussions of companies, having some of that information already documented could be advantageous to them in the future. It has been a partnership between us and the grower to help them document that info if they can get us the info. We sort of look at it as a shared opportunity.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. Okay. And that's not at this point on the back end connected to any kind of a carbon credits program.
Betsy Bauer:
Right.
Julia Garlock:
But it almost sounds like it could be at some point.
Betsy Bauer:
Yes, yes.
Julia Garlock:
All right.
Betsy Bauer:
Yes. Yes, that's exactly right, that's exactly right.
Julia Garlock:
Okay, good. And so you talked about some of the other tools that you use, the moisture probes and whatnot. Are those things that are monitored remotely or is that in-
Betsy Bauer:
Yes.
Julia Garlock:
Okay.
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah, yeah. A lot of the tools that we use, so the soil moisture probe is a physical probe that's installed in the ground. And then the data is uploaded to the cloud. There is a website that the farmer can go to, that I go to, to make those recommendations. And so the farmer can look at the status of his probe any time. So yes, all web based. On the nutrition side of things, we do some tissue sampling and some soil sampling. And we use interns to do those tissue and soil samples, but that information comes in as a PDF. I make a recommendation and then turn it around email wise to growers and their crop specialists so everyone's in the know. And then from there, they can make a decision on if they want to act on it or not, or if they want to ask a few more questions, et cetera.
Julia Garlock:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Betsy Bauer:
We also have a site-specific soil sampling program. Farmers do have the ability to see their data online as part of that program, but it's a site specific soil sampling program. So grid sampling, so to speak with recommendations, that can be made over a four year period, et cetera.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. And that's the sort of typical nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, that sort of stuff.
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah. Phosphorus, potassium, soil pH. In the east in Indiana, we don't do too much nitrogen testing because it is so fluid in our environment. We're rain fed. We have plenty of moisture just because you would test it and find it in one week, you might not necessarily always find it the next week unfortunately. So nitrogen testing has not been one of our tools. But certainly for us, it's more about the timing and protecting the nitrogen in our situation.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. I guess I was also wondering, a lot of soil tests are getting into the microbial testing, and things like that, is that part of what you do also?
Betsy Bauer:
Well, the lab that we use SureTech Labs is certainly developing a soil vitality test that would look at the organic carbon as well as the aggregate disability. So SureTech Labs is looking to develop, and they're in process of developing what's called a soil vitality test that would capture some of that soil health measure, so to speak, that other labs are doing. So they are looking at the organic... Testing for the organic carbon fraction, as well as looking at aggregate stability as at least two measures of that soil health system. Not sure where they're going on that soil microbiome. I did listen to a podcast yesterday that was talking about some of the soil health biome, and I'm not sure where they are on that. So at least starting down the pathway.
Julia Garlock:
Okay, good. So you've been a big supporter of no-till and cover crops for a long time. What really got you interested in those practices in the first place?
Betsy Bauer:
So, as I started my career as an agronomist 25, 26 years ago, a lot of my customers that I was working with were looking at no-till systems at the time. And in the area of Indiana that I started, it wasn't necessarily some of the best ground, so to speak. And so growers were sort of between a hot rock and a hard place. They know that they needed to reduce some of the things that they were purchasing on the farm. One of them was labor. Another one of them was a machine and the time it takes to do some tillage. So a lot of those guys got into no-till not necessarily for the wonderful things that no-till does, more for the economics, and all the wonderful aspects that no-till brings to the table sort of came for free. I've always been a type of agronomist that wanted to try to figure out things.
Betsy Bauer:
Wanted to learn right along with my customer. If he or she has a question about a certain practice, what can I do to help learn about that practice and help he or she be very successful in that practice? So no-till was one of the things. Adding starters to no-till, et cetera. And then about so 10 or 15 years ago, then we started looking at cover crops. And cover crops were new, they were pretty exciting. They looked to offer some opportunities for some of our landscapes, the predominant set of customers that I worked with. And so learning about cover crops, just learning right along with them, we figured that between the two or three of us together, we certainly could learn more together than we could separately. And so that's sort of where the interest had come. And then as you learn with them and you see some positive results to no-till and cover crops, then you can take some of those learning and help others that start to get interested.
Julia Garlock:
Okay, good. Can you share an example or a couple of examples of how you've seen no-till and, or cover crops make a financial impact for farmers bottom line?
Betsy Bauer:
Oh, certainly. So some of the things, a couple of years ago, it seemed like if I heard it once, I heard it 10 times, that the use of cover crops are helping farmers reduce their overall crop protection inputs. Because that cover crop that they terminate in the spring still has some competitive advantage with weeds, they are able to number one, see exactly where a field was cover cropped and where it wasn't because of the reduction in weeds, but also they may only need a pre-plant or an app plant application of a soil residual.
Betsy Bauer:
They may not necessarily need another post, or if they do need a little bit of a post emergence application, it might be just relegated to the end rows or not the whole field. So that has been an immediate aha moment for a lot of guys. And then some of the other things is, I work with a customer that had been tilled for several years. He is a strip tiller and started strip tilling, but the ground was still really hard. When we would try to put in the probe, we just really had a tough time drilling the hole to get the probe in. And I suggested he grow a cover crop and he took me up on it.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah.
Betsy Bauer:
And we could see an immediate relief and it wasn't as hard to drill that soil moisture probe in. He got deeper roots. We didn't have to manage just the upper 12 inches because his roots were growing deeper. If his roots are growing deeper, he's able to access more water, thus less irrigation. So some of those have been some of the take homes to cover crops. We can see reductions in some of our soybean pests, such as SCN or sudden death and soybeans sort of help with sudden death. So we've seen some of those over the years as well.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. Oh, that's great. So when faced with that sort of perennial question, do cover crops pay, you would say yes?
Betsy Bauer:
Yes. I would say yes. I would also, with the caveats that it does take a few years to develop your system on the farm. I am a strong proponent of cover crops. I also am very conservative in setting up good expectations and following through. Taking it one step at a time, because I've taken farmers too fast along that pathway. It doesn't always work out well, but those are the things that we learn along the way. And most farmers understand that, knowing that not everything is perfect, and so you learn from the mistakes that you have and you make that next fail, safe decision for the coming cropping system and your next year.
Brian O'Connor:
That was Betsy Bauer and Julia Garlock talking the potential for cover crops. We'll come back to the conversation in a moment. Before we do so, thanks to New Leaf Symbiotics for sponsoring today's podcast. Want to do more with your fields in 2022? Now available in convenient planter box application Terrasym by New Leaf Symbiotics is proven by BEX 2021 PFR to improve yield by 2.7 bushels per acre in soybeans, and 4.6 bushels per acre in corn. And that's $20,000 more in incremental income with every 1,000 acres planted. To calculate your return on investment for the 2022 growing season, you can purchase Terrasym directly online for only $4.35 per acre. Visit newleafsym.com\22. That's newleaf, S-Y-M.com\2022. Before we get back to the conversation here is No-Till Farmer editor, Frank Lesser with a little known No-Till Farmer fact.
Frank Lesser:
One of the interesting things that's come up in the national no-tillage conference over the past 30 years is some of the little things that happened are kind of funny or of interest. And I remember once, maybe 10 years ago or so, we had Jill Clapperton talking about soil biology and things along the soil health lines. And anyway, during her presentation, somebody's cell phone went off and ringing. She stopped right in the middle of the presentation and said to this person, "I want $10 for that." So the whole crowd laughed, but what's interesting we did this for a number of years and any time if cell phone would go off, we would ask for $10. Now, we normally didn't collect it. But if it was somebody I knew pretty well, I'd make them give me the $10 and we would do something with it. So it was a way of telling people that maybe they should turn off their cell phones during the national no tillage conference general sessions.
Brian O'Connor:
Now, let's get back to agronomist, Betsy Bauer and Julie Garlock as they continue the conversation.
Julia Garlock:
Do you ever have to sort of reign in a farmer and say, if he's really gung home and wants to do something say, "Well, let's try it on a smaller scale first." Do you ever [crosstalk 00:26:46]. Yeah?
Brian O'Connor:
Oh, yes. Let's try it on a smaller scale. Let's try to go slower, so that you've got the benefits of the system that you're developing. I did have a customer that did want to go too quickly and couldn't follow through with the best recommendation at the time, and it did have a negative impact. And so we learned from that. And so, my mistake was probably, he wanted to go that direction, I was willing to go with them, but we probably went faster than what we should on that operation.
Julia Garlock:
Sure.
Brian O'Connor:
So yeah, definitely, definitely. Be patient. With any cropping system, you want to have success and build on successes that return on investment, helping him make those decisions. If there's a negative return on investment, that's not wonderful.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah, yeah. Having that ability to see a program through is really important because otherwise, we have that bad experience and then you don't want to [crosstalk 00:27:49] again, right?
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah, exactly. And luckily, even the one with the bad experience, I still am working with them. They're exceedingly happy with the rest of the direction of the farm we've taken. Cover crops have taken somewhat of a backseat, but they're ready to start again. Well, it was as much fun a few years, we still continued to work together. They knew that they were getting good service and we were learning other things that needed to happen. We just went too fast.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's great. So I just wanted to talk about Indiana.
Betsy Bauer:
Yes.
Julia Garlock:
That's where you are. Indiana has had some challenging weather. I mean, a lot of states have, but in 2019 in particular there was a huge amount of prevent plant acres because of how wet it was in the spring.
Betsy Bauer:
Yes.
Julia Garlock:
What were some of the lessons learned from dealing with those challenging circumstances?
Betsy Bauer:
We learned how we could keep cover crops growing, and again, that's going to be in a well established system. A system where guys have been cover cropping and no-tilling for a few years. That allowed us to reduce some of that moisture, that early season moisture. Because the cover crops took up the moisture while we didn't necessarily plant when we wanted to, we could get in there a little bit sooner.
Julia Garlock:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Betsy Bauer:
We got the ability to try cover crops on acres that we never would've tried on cover crops before. So there were some instrumental programs that allowed growers to grow cover crops and get a feel for them that year, because we had that prevent plant. So that was sort of lucky. So we got to see some cover crops planted in June, and we got the same at the end of May into June, and then at the end of July into earlier... So planted earlier than they ever had been, we learned that we can plant corn and soybeans a little later and still have a positive return on investment. We learned also that we needed to ensure that the crop nutrition was what it needed to be at that point in time too. But those were some of the learnings. Being late isn't the overall end all. Not that 2019 anyone wants to repeat anytime soon. We don't. But we did have some other positives so we learned along the way.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. So how late into the season were you planting corn and soybeans?
Betsy Bauer:
In some areas in Indiana, we didn't start planting until June 3rd.
Julia Garlock:
Oh.
Betsy Bauer:
And luckily they had a good dry week and they could get it done by June 7th. But those were areas in Northern Indiana that probably, they really pushed it for their window. We planted corn until 10th or 15th in other areas, and even later in the Southern part of the state. We've been able to double crop seed corn sometimes it's not common at all, but even after double cropping after wheat, we do have a window opportunity that you could make it. It's not ideal in the Southern part of the state. So we were a little bit more confident in the south what we could realize regarding yield with corn and then soybeans. Soybeans, because we do a lot of double cropping of soybeans with wheat, we were confident into July. And we did see some good yields from late planted beans, so would've been way after a normal wheat harvest that did end up producing well.
Julia Garlock:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Okay, great. So you would have been still harvesting soybeans in October or so?
Betsy Bauer:
Oh, yeah. Oh, end of October. Well, end of October into November. As we all recall, 2019 sort of kept hitting us along. We had some nice harvest weather in September as I recall, maybe early October and then it got wet. And so we were harvesting very late for traditional harvest.
Julia Garlock:
Right. Yeah. I know in Wisconsin, I knew people who were harvesting right around Christmas still.
Betsy Bauer:
Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We had several guys into the next area, yeah. It was a season that just started out not great and didn't... Ended up not great.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. For a more normal year, at the beginning of the planting season, what are you favoring these days? Some people are saying you can plant beans before corn. And so what are your thoughts on that? Beans before corn or not?
Betsy Bauer:
Yes. Yeah, I think that's some of the things that we're finding with some of the genetics that we're using is that an early planted bean, when I look at some of the yield data that I've seen using the Truterra Tool, it's sort of really been amazing that the high shielded beans are always the earliest planted beans. They've just got more time to do all of their processes. They've got more time for grain fill. And we don't have the negative impact on planting corn a little later. I do think that we've learned a lot more about nutrition when we need to have the nutrition applied. And so I think we're more comfortable with the genetics that we have today that we can wait and plant those a little later. Every corn plant coming up at the same time is actually of more benefit perhaps than planting early with some of our genetics. I'm not going to say all genetics, but those are some of the things that we've learned.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah, great. So I've read that you're doing some research on soil fertility and agronomic factors that affect yield. What can you tell us about that?
Betsy Bauer:
Over the last 10 years, what we've learned a lot about that was the value of sulfur in our corn and soybean systems. And in corn we also have learned the value of early season zinc and perhaps on our high yield systems boron. So, we've been learning more about those secondary nutrients and their influence on nitrogen efficiency. Nitrogen and sulfur play hand in hand. And especially in our sandy soils, when we know we can't keep either one of those around because of movement through water, we've learned to apply more than one time for nitrogen and sulfur both. And then when you add those two together, that efficiency, that occurs has been sort of one of the ahas for us now. And what we did do to begin with was take a tissue test, we found the sulfur deficiency. And so we've used that information to help farmers change their systems around.
Betsy Bauer:
Luckily, sulfur is not a super expensive spend. And when you do spend your return on investment ,it's typically really good with that spend. But just learning how to use some of our sulfur products to see that bank for the buck. Zinc is one of those that we've learned that really helps us up early for nutrition moving through the plant. And so get in and around the seed has been very important. And then Boron just having it where we need to have it. And there can be different times for Boron. It's a little more of a discussion with the farmer on how does he manage his nutrition to make the best recommendations for everything.
Betsy Bauer:
But those have been some of the nutrition things that we've learned. We put on Potassium and sometimes even Phosphorus once the crop is up, it's another one of our learnings we are feeling more confident on. So we can change in order to... From the logistics side of things, it doesn't hurt to put some of those products on in a growing crop. We do have application units that allow us to do that, but we've found some efficiencies and soybeans as well as in corn with being able to layer some of the nutrition, especially in soils that it can move a little bit more readily.
Julia Garlock:
Okay. And now, when you're talking about timing of the nutrients, are you talking about the timing within the growth stage or the time of year or even the time of day, I've heard?
Betsy Bauer:
When I talk about timing of nutrition, it's more about growth stage. Understanding when corn or soybeans need Nitrogen, need Sulfur, need Potassium. And then matching that application to right before it's going to need a heavier load of some of those nutrients.
Julia Garlock:
Okay.
Betsy Bauer:
So that's what I'm talking more about is timing that way. It doesn't necessarily need to be the time of day with some of those bulk type fertilizers.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah. Okay. Got you. Let's talk a little bit more about nutrient management, because obviously it's a big issue. It's one of the biggest costs for farmers and then some nutrients get tied up easily while others are prone to bleaching and ending up in the waterways.
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah.
Julia Garlock:
And you mentioned this and I know a lot of farmers talk about wanting to reduce inputs. So is that a realistic goal for a lot of farmers? And if so, what strategy are you suggesting for that?
Betsy Bauer:
Sorry, that's somewhat of a tough question because you really need to understand the farmer's system, how he applies his nutrition, just how he manages nutrition overall. You need to understand his soil test, what are his normal yields, et cetera. Reducing nutrient loads are certainly a way to potentially reduce potential nutrients moving off target. But then I also want to counter that with, if we've got ways that we can apply the nutrients more timely, more applications, potentially depending on the system. Again, it all depends on the system, where we're sure that we can get that nutrient into the crop, that's probably one of the easy is ways that you can reduce overall nutrition, because you're getting the nutrients there right when the crop needed.
Betsy Bauer:
It's not going to take the nutrients that it took if you are applying it pre-plant. So if you take those hand in hand, that's certainly a way that we can look at a reducing overall nutrition, but it does take understanding how the farmer operates. Can he do things timely? If the retailer's doing it, can we do things timely? Because getting some of our important nutrients like Nitrogen, Sulfur a little bit too late is not all always good either.
Julia Garlock:
Okay. My other question, it was about fall applied Nitrogen. Over the years, I think we've seen a lot less fall applied Nitrogen.
Betsy Bauer:
Yes.
Julia Garlock:
What are you seeing in this? Are there times when fall applied Nitrogen still makes sense?
Betsy Bauer:
Fall applied Nitrogen, it is concerning because Nitrogen is so mobile. We are rain fed in Indiana. It is pretty concerning. If guys are going to apply fall Nitrogen, certainly needs to be as we're getting colder into the fall, as well as using a Nitrogen stabilizer.
Julia Garlock:
Sure, sure.
Betsy Bauer:
Big believer in all of those things. Early in the spring, a Nitrogen stabilizer, because we aren't going to need the bulk of that Nitrogen until June and July. You can't always predict where it's going to be, but probably one of the more successful ways to apply fall applied Nitrogen is only apply a portion of the Nitrogen that you're going to apply. Maybe 100 pounds. So that gets you set off into the spring. You've got it stabilized. And then you come in and side dress for some of the additional Nitrogen that you were going to do. That's probably the most environmentally savvy, efficiency thinking through the whole fall Nitrogen dilemma.
Julia Garlock:
That makes sense. I've seen there's several new products out that are microbes that are Nitrogen enhancing or nitrogen sequestering or something. Have you had any experience with those, or have you done some research or do you... What do you know about how those are working?
Betsy Bauer:
So my formal training would, would not necessarily lend well to the microbials. However, I am confident that there is some of our newer microbials, probably is going to be something there. We're just going to need to learn how to use them.
Julia Garlock:
Sure.
Betsy Bauer:
We're going to need to understand some of the newer products that indicate that you can reduce your Nitrogen load because it is actually fixing Nitrogen in the soil. They certainly could possibly work. Will they work in every environment? Can it be a practice that works for every farmer? I'm not sure yet. Get the opportunity to start to work with some microbials that are breaking down some of the heavy residues from corn to improve our plantability of corn on corn, as well as soybeans after corn in our no-till systems. If we can keep sequester the nutrition that they're helping to break down from those residues, that could be very positive.
Betsy Bauer:
It could easily pay for itself. If you get corn oil up at the same time, you get year placement good, you're in the hump for high yields. And so using some of those products to do some of that could be possible. We just need to work with them, test them, some of those things. So I have hope. I'm interested in them. I know the soil microbiome is extremely large, and some of the products, we may not be applying enough of the microbial at the time. So right now, I know enough to be dangerous.
Julia Garlock:
Right. Yeah. And have you seen any of the research on how synthetic nutrients affect the microbiome directly? I've seen it just seems like conflicting reports.
Betsy Bauer:
Yeah, I see conflicting reports at all. I do think in agriculture that we need to be on the search for products that fit our systems. I work for an Ag retailer, synthetic fertilizer products have certainly been of an advantage, have helped us to grow healthy corn, healthy soybeans as well. Do we need to be looking at alternatives on down the road? Certainly. Do we need to be managing all of those nutritional products a little better? Yes, we do. So I'm certainly open minded about all of those, and want to be sure we're doing the right thing for the customer, for all of us. We want clean streams, farmers want clean streams.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah.
Betsy Bauer:
Society does. And so we need to keep our minds open and look at different ways to manage that nutrient.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah, okay.
Betsy Bauer:
Those nutrients.
Julia Garlock:
Perfect. Yeah. And so now, there's a whole host of organizations that are getting on board with the latest efforts to reward farmers for sequestering carbon in the soil. What are your thoughts on the carbon markets and agriculture's potential to sequester that carbon for the long haul?
Betsy Bauer:
Well, I think it certainly looks like an opportunity. We have guys that are doing a lot of those practices because it works on their farm. The ability to sequester, we've got a lot of land base in the Midwest and in Indiana. We're doing some very good work to do some of that. And if there's an opportunity for them to gain some additional income from the practices that they've chosen to do, that right now no one's getting paid for, I'm positive to it. I think agriculture could be a big help to some of our climate change issues that we're dealing with. I do believe that it will be taking all of us working together, working as partners to understand everything. I'm lucky in Indiana, that we do have a lot of different partnerships and we learn from each other. We sort of go at problems from a different perspective, but we can model out some solutions and learn along the way.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah, absolutely. So just looking back on your career over the last, however long it's been, how long did you say it's been?
Betsy Bauer:
Oh, 25, 26 years.
Julia Garlock:
Okay.
Betsy Bauer:
Somewhere in there.
Julia Garlock:
So just looking back on your 25 year history, how have farmers needs shifted and how has your job changed?
Betsy Bauer:
I think what we're still trying to harness is the power of technology. I do know that some of the things, the technology that they have on implements certainly have taken some of the strains, some of the driving systems that they have. GPS has definitely allowed us to get product where it needs to be. And we sort of know where it needs to be. We can measure that in the soil using some of that technology. I do think we're still trying to figure out, how do we make it ourselves more efficient overall? How do we use the information that the technology is delivering to make better decisions? I think we'll just continue to learn on all of those things.
Betsy Bauer:
So farmers, how they've changed. It's certainly gotten more complex some of the new seed technologies, and some of the crop protection products. And some of our nutritional products and being able to sort of put them on in time need, I think, has been fascinating. I think it allows us to be more efficient and have less... Reduce the overall potential negative impacts on the environment. I think all of that is really exciting, and I feel lucky to have been able to witness a lot of this along the way and hope to do more.
Julia Garlock:
Yeah, absolutely. That's great. Well, I think that's about it. Do you have any final thoughts for our no tillers?
Betsy Bauer:
Keep learning on your farm, keep asking questions. Keep asking questions to your agronomic advisors, whether they be an independent crop consultant or an Ag retailer. Help them learn as well. Sometimes some of your consultants need to be brought along as well, but don't be afraid to try new products and services that you think might be an advantage on your farm, but keep learning, keep asking questions, keep pushing to learn more.
Brian O'Connor:
Thanks to Betsy and Julia, and thanks to our sponsor New Leaf Symbiotics for helping to make possible the No-Till Farmer Influencers & Innovators podcast series. Before we wrap up this episode, here's Frank one more time.
Frank Lesser:
A reader wrote in and said, how narrow are we going to get on narrower rows with no-till corn and maybe even soybeans. Although soybeans, we've been down to seven and a half inch row drill with soybeans, but what's interesting is as Harry Stein family at the Del Iowa was developing new genetics for growing corn in a 12 inch by 12 inch row pattern. And regardless of the crop, I think it can look for even narrower rows to take full advantage of some of the new genetics, to improved weed control with earlier shading and other improvements that will pump up yields. So I think in the future, we may see even narrower and narrower rows, but who knows?
Brian O'Connor:
Thanks for tuning in. You can find more podcasts about no-till topics and strategies at no-tillfarmer.com\podcast. If you have any feedback on today's episode, please feel free to email me at B-O-C-O-N-N-O-R@lessergroupmedia.com, or call me at (262) 777-2413. And don't forget, Frank would love to answer your questions about no-till and the people in innovations that have made an impact on today's practices. So please email your questions to us at listenermail@no-tillfarmer.com. Once again, if you haven't done so already, you can subscribe to this podcast to get an alert as soon as future episodes are released. Find us wherever you listen to podcasts. For Julia and Frank, and our entire staff here at No-Till Farmer, I'm lead content editor, Brian O'Connor. Thanks for listening.
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