http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/ The latest news from No-Till Farmer, http://www.no-tillfarmer.com. en-us http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Envision IT Forum System Copyright 2009 Envision Information Technologies, http://www.envisionitllc.com 60 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35875 What I have seen is that if it is sunny and warm atleast sunny it is alot easier to kill rye.  I have seen it for my self two feild two days one is brown one is not.  Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:01:50 -0600 35875 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35872 Big wheat and small rye are hard to kill. I've had WAY more problems killing wheat after it gets a foot+ high than I've ever had killing rye. We used to get pretty freaked out about rye, and have dumped a couple of qts of glyphosate on it at a foot tall or less and had so-so results. I've taken 2 ft tall rye out easily with 1-2 pints of glyphosate the same year that 2 qts wouldn't kill 6" rye.   Wheat and rye are both grasses, thats where the similarity ends in terms of cover crops. I beleive that most of the fear of rye "getting away from us" is founded in the old days when rye was plowed down in the spring. Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:32:13 -0600 35872 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35867 What are the best ways to kill cereal rye in the spring before no-till planting corn? Fri, 01 Jan 2010 14:21:32 -0600 35867 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35863 Gene, we got 125 ac of barley planted late October and it is looking good.  I think you might have the right idea.  Wheat is OK but it is so hard to kill here, took 3 quarts of glyphosate to really kill it here two years ago because it got out of hand, thus the fear of cereal rye.  Oats would have worked this year and would be dead by now like our radishes planted earlier. Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:44:55 -0600 35863 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35592 I would like to try seeding some cereal rye in to corn stalks this fall.  How many lbs. per acre do I want to drill if I use a 1560 Deere?  Should I use less if I try 15" rows with a Kinze planter?  The corn has a lot of Fall Panicum in it, should that be killed first.  If I plant the cereal rye in 15" rows, will the rows be to far apart to get the winter weed control?  Thanks for any responses.  Also, where can I get the backing plates for a Kinze meter to plant cereal rye, wheat, etc.? Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:02:40 -0500 35592 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35584 Gene, what is your next crop?  As the season gets late, your options clearly go down.  We worry about rye getting away from us in the SC PA as well.  Many use wheat or barley.  Don't get much growth before winter, but, then it takes off in the spring to suck up excess moisture and get you in the field timely.  If you are planting corn the follwoing year, I would consider a legume like clover or vetch.  Both will not produce much in the fall either,but, will grow in the spring.  A reduced rate of small grain with the legume is a real nice "compromise".  I'm interested in tritical as an option.  It germinates like rye but grows more like wheat.  Might be a better option for those who are concerned about having 6 foot rye to contend with in the spring? Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:59:18 -0500 35584 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35578 For more information regarding Red and Crimson Clover go to: "www.oregonclover.org" Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:03:24 -0500 35578 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post35574 I want to try cover crops after the soybeans are off this fall for the first time.  I'm in SW Mich.  The MSU extention fellow told me to use cereal rye, but I can see having problems with a wet spring. Barley could be a good option, but will It germinate and get a decent stand if I drill it in with my JD 750 no till drill in approx. the end of October?  Should I look at something else such as hairy fetch?  Thanks in advance for your input.      Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:50:44 -0500 35574 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30446 I have tried a bunch and get the best results with www.tillageradish.com after wheat for corn or beans next year. There are many good options depending on your goals. Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:33:34 -0500 30446 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30445 Forage radishes are a good cover crop helping alleve compaction, scavenge extra nitrogen and helps keep weed pressure low. Planting rates are 8-12 lbs per acre. They will winter kill after a few days of high 20's temperature. I think you'll see that in your area LOL. The radishes are not a legume so they will not make nitrogen but they do capture any there and release it pretty quickly the following spring. I would look at clover, hairy vetch or a winter pea if you want a legume to make nitrogen. Do a search for "SARE Managing Cover Crops for Profitability". It is a free download publication that gives a lot of good cover crop information and covers many different species to consider. I encourage you to consider your goal with a cover crop as you consider what to plant. Also, don't get caught up in all these different species and mixes. Planting something is always better than planting nothing ecspecially in a situation where the field will lay fallow for a long period of time such as will be the case with your wheat ground. Here in Adams County PA, I've see the most successful cover crop plantings in wheat stubble start with a clean field and planted as soon as possible after harvest. Good luck. Brian Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:05:34 -0500 30445 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30444 Thanks for the information. I have heard and been thinking about the forage radishes. Can anyone tell me a seeding rate? Will they survive the winter? If so will a burn down in the spring kill them? Tim Fichtel Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:18:28 -0500 30444 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30442 Last year I planted asterian winter peas with some clover. It was the first time I tried peas and the corn looks great. The stand is good and has looked great all year. The peas didn't make the winter but some did make it. The feild was much mellowere then in years past. This year we are going to try alafala and peas. We farm in centeral wisconsin. Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:10:07 -0500 30442 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30443 Last year I planted asterian winter peas with some clover. It was the first time I tried peas and the corn looks great. The stand is good and has looked great all year. The peas didn't make the winter but some did make it. The feild was much mellowere then in years past. This year we are going to try alafala and peas. We farm in centeral wisconsin. Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:10:07 -0500 30443 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30441 I am looking for any information on cover crops after winter wheat. we farm in south central wisconsin. How long should I wait after wheat harvest? Burn down of weeds? Liquid manure application? What crops? I am looking for something to build the soil and add nitrogen as will no till corn the next spring Thanks Tim Fichtel Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:38:27 -0500 30441 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30437 You name it, he tries it. I am interested in his split row radish pea mix, one pound of radish in one row and 15 lbs of peas in the other row. I will try to get you information. Ed Thu, 28 May 2009 03:36:38 -0500 30437 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30439 Are there any helicopter cover crop seeders in sothern, IL (Effingham area) Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:14:49 -0500 30439 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30436 Inthe April issue of the No-Till Farmer (page 14 ) ,approximately how many pounds per acre does David use of Austrian Winter peas ,oilseed radish and hairy vetch into his wheat stubble ? Does he chop the stubble down ? How does he plant or seed it down? Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:09:11 -0500 30436 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30374 We overseed cover crops because we don't plant them at the ideal time or have the ideal equipment to do it with. Cover crop seed should be cheap to entice farmers to do it. Contact Steve Groff at www.cedarmeadowfarm.com for the latest in seeding rates and results. Sat, 11 Apr 2009 05:15:10 -0500 30374 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30417 This article on Gabe Brown at Bismark, ND, might be a help: http://www.notill.org/LE_Articles/V5N3A1_Brown.pdf -- Not all his "cover crops" are grazed. The effects of cocktails/mixtures in the drought of '06 were remarkable. In Montana, I would expect that cover crops would be most appropriate to replace a chemfallow (summerfallow). On wet years, there might be some advantages after wheat harvest for fields going to corn the following year. I doubt a Concord shank-type opener would do very good with these small-seeded crops. best regards, ========== Matt Hagny consulting agronomist since '94, founder Exapta Solutions ('99) Wed, 25 Mar 2009 05:36:57 -0500 30417 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30416 We all need to visit Dwayne Beck at the Dakota Lakes Research Farm. He can show us it works. Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:38:17 -0500 30416 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30415 Greg, I am in se Montana and I share your interest and concerns. We are typically even a little drier than you are (13" 100 year average). I've talked with nrcs about cover cropping and they're all for it, but I'm not sure about it. If we seed the cover crop in August behind the combine, there would be absolutely no moisture to seed into, and I have my doubts as to whether the old concord air drill would even go into the ground. Secondly, on a normal summer weather pattern, the seed may lay there for 60 days w/o any measureable precip. on it and wouldn't actually germinate and sprout until fall freezing season in upon us. At $20/acre for these cover crop cocktail mixes, I have my doubts as to whether cover crops would be a feasible idea in this environment. I'm going to try a few acres this year with grazing in mind, but it will be very few until I see results. The lady running the nrcs in Baker, MT is very knowledgeable on cover cropping, and she got a couple producers to do some over there this year. I'll be checking back with her to see how that is working outl It's hard to find fellow drylanders on this forum. I've found most producers on this forum are from the midwest, where their dryland will grow corn and soybeans. We are in a little different world, and it's nice to exchange ideas w/in my own environment. Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:08:12 -0500 30415 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30432 Don't be afraid to try. Maybe one field would be best to start. I know of a 2000 ac farm in ryegrass every year in Central Indiana, I don't know how he gets it done. Winterkill is a problem but you still have roots and cover. He plants right into it one pass. The radishes are the hot topic though and I think you will see more of them Any cover is better than none but hard to get it planted and most don't want to mess with it. It is the next net profit advancement in farming. Fri, 06 Mar 2009 07:33:10 -0600 30432 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30434 What is the best liquid (10-34-0) pump and manifold system to use to put down 5 gal/ac of pop-up in furrow. Setting up a new 1770NT with pop-up and 2x2. Sat, 21 Feb 2009 22:36:59 -0600 30434 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30428 Dave Brandt will be explaining this at the Conservation Tillage Conference in Ada Ohio next week. Ed Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:57:59 -0600 30428 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30431 In northern Illinois I would think you would be challenged adopting cover crops to strip tillage. Aerial application before Labor Day would seem to be a must in my mind. There increased cost and questionable emergence is a given. If you have summer harvest acres like wheat or barley or oats it would be a cinch. The strips of Tillage Radish with Austrian Peas at Dave Brandt's farm in Lancaster, Ohio are exciting. 600 lbs of N, 20 lbs of P and 250 lbs of K and others given off is tremendous. Lots of work needs to be done. You might contact Joel Gruver at Western Illinois University for advice. There is 2 days on cover crops at the Conservation Tillage Conference in Ada Ohio Feb. 26 and 27. A google search will easily pull that up. Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:40:19 -0600 30431 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30430 I've been doing some research on the use of cover crops and like what I've learned about their benefits. I'm seriously considering the adoption this practice next year and getting away from conventional tillage on most, if not all of my northern IN corn acres. My biggest concern is cold soil temperatures at planting time. Has anyone out there tried strip tillage in a standing cover crop as a means of applying fertilizer and warming up the seed bed? Seems like a possible way of getting the benefits of a cover crop without sacrificing the soil temperature issue. Planting could also be easier if some of the fertilizer was already applied. Any thoughts about this idea would be appreciated. Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:17:45 -0600 30430 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30368 Interesting thread! Thanks all for the good discussion! For some reason I am not troubled by slugs and I think it is just dry enough here to help the situation. But I really think healthy soil has a lot to do with it along with timely planting, harvesting, scouting and pest management. As far as southern Ohio is David we can plant 107 day corn and expect good dry down almost every time regardless of planting date which was late this year. I prefer the rugged 112 day hybrids that yield more but they also bring more water to the bin to deal with. I have planted 118 day corn with great yields but again the moisture content. Beans, 3.5-3.7 is early and best yields from 4.0-4.5. Ed Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:03:04 -0600 30368 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30371 from the test going on in our area, we're going to be using Barley next year for our cover crop of choice. Apparently you get the same root mass as annual rye, but with less risk of hight growth in the spring if you can't kill due to wet weather. Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:46:05 -0600 30371 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30367 I've seen/heard of slug problems in varying no-till situations with and without cover crops. Certainly the residue from cover crops make a good habitat for slugs and they will most likely be a problem for you from time to time. No one has come up with a really good, cost effective way to deal with them that I've heard about. On top of that they always seems to hit a field or section of field that is visable from the road! No one here that I know of has seen/experienced a bad enough slug problem to scrap the whole notion of no-till and cover crops yet. Expect them and adjust your system if they become a problem. Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:47:19 -0600 30367 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30427 Contact your dealer or aftermarket dealers on plates for small seeds like you are wanting to plant. I am sure it can be done! Ed Winkle Sat, 29 Nov 2008 05:42:40 -0600 30427 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30426 In the Dec 08 no-till farmer they talk about using a White planter to plant oilseed radishes and winter peas. Are John Deere planters capable of planting the small seeds. Also looking at maybe planting wheat with the John Deere planter. Is anyone currently doing this or know where I could find more information on it? Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:28:01 -0600 30426 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30366 I wanted to make an addition to this discussion. Speaking with an agronomist this week, he was concerned about slugs in the red clover eating my corn once it's planted. Has anyone encountered this issue? I haven't seen any talk of this in my research. Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:11:46 -0600 30366 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30365 So far a 2.4D and roundup mix or gramoxone has killed the clover. Well, let me clarify that a little, no one has complained that they didn't get a good kill with these products. I haven't been in contact with every single farmer that has used clover cover crops, but, I am pretty sure I'd have heard if they didn't kill it! An active healthy plant should take in the herbicide of choice very well. Don't beleive it? Just try it on a small field or a portion of the field OR grow some RR corn and experiment in that. At least with the RR corn you can spray again if you don't kill it. Farmers here have voiced the same concern you have and it appears to be an unfounded fear. I've ssen some very healthy and very tall clover (18") get sprayed and corn no-tilled with no clover regrowth (or at least any that caused a problem). The resdiue that it puts down and the moisture that can be retained is really, really incredible. However, the only way to be convinced though is to do it yourself. Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:22:05 -0600 30365 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30364 Hello Joel, to respond to your question, the reason I burned down the clover in the fall, I was worried about a wet spring. My concern was that if I was delayed in the spring to do my burndown, and the clover really took hold and started to grow, would I have a harder time killing it? That was mainly my primary worry. We used a Roundup/ 2-4-D mix to kill it. It did a great job, and entire stand is crispy. My research tell me it'll hold its Nitrogen, living or dead. I still spread Potash this fall, maybe I really didn't need to. Brian, with regards to your post, we have the same issue in SW Ontario Canada, with a wet spring. If the clover really starts to grow, do you find a tougher time killing it in the spring? Thanks for the responses everyone, much appreciated. South Western Ontario climate seems very similar Ohio's probably a little milder. We're in the 3200 heat unit range, with clay loam soils. Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:04:23 -0600 30364 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30363 We have several growers using clover (red or crimson) as a cover crop. They are planting into wheat stubble or corn silage stubble in the fall/late summer. The clovers are then burned down in the following spring prior to corn planting. Are they getting additional N from the clover? YES. How much? A little harder to answer. We are probably getting between 40 and 80 lbs of Nitrogen. A couple of things "here" (South Central PA), a cover crop growing in the spring is preferred in order to "grow out" the excess moisture we have. We have folks planting into the cover live or crispy dead. Neither has experienced any real problems into the clover. In fact, we've had only positve responses to planting into it. The issue this past spring was moisture. For those that killed w/ RU well ahead of planting (7-10 days), rains after kill severly hampered the ability for the soil to dry out for planting. That dead residue really held the moisture and planting was severly delayed. I've encouraged most to consider spraying at planting or using gramoxone for a quicker kill and a smaller window for weather to cause problems. All are very happy with the results of cover crops in general and specifically clover has become the species of choice for fields going into corn. I fully expect cover cropping to become a necessity "here" to making no-till work. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:31:49 -0600 30363 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30362 Coincidence? Providence? I was just thinking about this very thing. Yesterday I asked a seed supplier what he'd recommend as an N-fixing cover crop. He recommended red clover broadcast in late winter (so there would still be some freeze/thaw action to work the seed into the ground). I asked if there was a danger it would grow too tall and interfere with wheat harvest, and he said only if the wheat stand is thin. I guess I would rather do it early rather than wait till after harvest due to concerns about adequate moisture in mid summer. Also, I want to plant corn about mid April, so I wouldn't have as much time for spring growth the following year before a burndown. David, did you burn down now to control volunteer wheat and prevent a green bridge for mites to neighboring wheat fields? Or why not let it go until next spring and burn down several weeks ahead of planting? Would the same thing work with hairy vetch? In order to let it (clover or vetch) grow through the winter, would it be advisable to spray with some sort of grass herbicide in early September to kill any volunteer wheat and prevent the green bridge effect? BTW, my location is central Kansas. Scott or David, did you have any problems planting through the residue? Do you use row cleaners? Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:38:45 -0600 30362 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30361 I'm trying something new for next year. I've seeded red clover in my wheat field last winter, and let it grow all summer. This fall, I've performed a burndown, and will no till corn next spring. From what I've researched, legumes (red clover) provide nitrogen for the following crop, especially when has not been tilled into the soil. Is anyone currently doing this? What has been the success rate? Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:25:38 -0600 30361 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30370 Annual rye? Cereal Rye? Oats? Wheat? Others? What do you use and how do you do it? If you haven't tried them, why not? If you have, how have you improved your soybean profits? Thanks, Ed Winkle Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:18:18 -0500 30370 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30373 putting out cover crop test strips on the following- hairy vetch, australian winter peas, sweet clover,and turnips. located in so. ky and will be notill drilled after doublecrop soybean harvest app. last week of oct-1st nov. will be killed down middle of mar in the spring and notilled in corn. what is the min seeding rates of each should be used? any other info or suggestions would be welcomed. Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:42:55 -0500 30373 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30376 I'm located in central Minnesota and am considering no-till drilling a cover crop into corn stubble even though we've already experienced a freeze. Is that feasible? I'd like to get some roots established and growing, but don't know if it's too late. Any thoughts on what cover crops would work best in this situation? Wally St. Onge, Little Falls, Minn. Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:26:52 -0500 30376 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30378 What is the best way to control winter rye after the manure is spread in the spring. How hard is it to plant corn into after the manure has been applied. Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:14:13 -0500 30378 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30424 We are seeing 30-40 bushels more notill corn yields planting forage radishes after wheat, over ryegrass, oats and combinations of radishes. They are being called Tillage radishes in our region and give great tilth and energy for the following crops after wheat. This is where wheat in rotation gives us another great tool in a notill rotation. Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:25:51 -0600 30424 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30423 I farm in central kansas, can i plant a cover crop after wheat harvest in june to keep something growing on that ground till fall? Some of the ground i plan on putting it back to wheat this fall, and the rest i'll plant to soybeans next spring. What cover crop would you recommend? Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:00:06 -0500 30423 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30400 I am going to plant some forage radishes after seeing what Steve's did. If you try them let me know what you learned. Ed Winkle www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:37:17 -0500 30400 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30421 yeah i figure well give it a try. we got our planter set up for zone till and have had good luck with it, with the three coulters per row and yetter row cleaners. Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:18:44 -0500 30421 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30420 I always tell people to not be afraid of trying something new because unless you try it at least 1 time how else will you know. I have had more bizzare things work out sucessfully than have been failures. Our experience to date with the annual ryegrass has been good. Planting into it whether it has been alive and green or dead as a nail has not been an issue for us in NY. The top growth does not get to course and rank like cereal rye does. The root structure doesn't seem to make clumps like some others can. It has a fairly fine root and stem and it should be terminated early in the season. Also need to consider how your planter is equiped as to what you can tolerate for residue. I.E. does it have notill coulters and any other options ?? Donn E. Branton Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:33:14 -0500 30420 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30419 this is something new i want to play with. i like everything about the ryegrass, except for the part about planting corn into the standing vegetation. we have successfully grown winter wheat in 15" rows with our kinze splittler planter. this way there would be a nice strip of bare ground that i could plant into, maybe even strip till in the spring. it might take a few more years to get the full benefit from the ryegrass, but it would be better than nothing at all. let me know what you guys think. Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:55:31 -0500 30419 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30399 Thanks Ed. Yes we have used oats in the past and had good luck in challenging conditions. We are currently using ann. ryegrass as of the last 2 years and so far have been excited about it. Thinking about getting some Radish seed this year from Steve G. in Pa. and giving that a try. With the rye grass, the first year we rented a 30 ft used drill and went into Sweetcorn and some wheat stubble after harvest and drilled through the residue and had great results without any other tillage. This past year we mixed the ryegrass (annual) with potash and airflowed the mix onto our sweetcorn ground right after harvest and that also worked great. This system gave us dual application which saved us another step ($$$$). May try the radish's this way also ?? Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:45:08 -0500 30399 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30398 Good points Donn. Saw your picture with a good article the other day but I forget which publication it was in but I think it was Farm Journal. Have you tried oats, annual rye or forage turnips yet? Ed Winkle Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:57:03 -0500 30398 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30397 Have used spring Barley in the past as it has a good fiberous root but spring barley will winter kill. If you don't get it planted soon enough to get good growth then you won't gain much benefit. I don't think there is enough time after soy and corn harvest for this. Winter barley , obviously as it's name won't winter kill. We have used both at different times in places that we either wanted a live cover crop in the spring or a dead one. Donn E. Branton, western NY Sun, 08 Apr 2007 06:38:08 -0500 30397 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30414 There is much interest in cover crops to conserve moisture, convert essential elements and keep the soil "energized." As one experienced farmer said in Pa at the NoTill Alliance meeting, the dying cover crop roots give energy to the soil and the new crop. Good way to put it. Annual rye is number one around here, oats are popular, forage radishes are gaining momentum from much success and interest. The cover should be cheap, easy to establish, easy to kill. The big management factor is getting it all done. I think a lot of farmers don't even get all the lime on they need around here let alone establish a cover crop. For best yields, it all needs to be done! Good luck in your quest for covers in ND. I think they could pay you good rewards. Ed Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:05:20 -0500 30414 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30413 Greg, Cover crops may still have a place in your area. Proper selection and management is critical so that soil moisture is not lost. There is no simple answer but I would begin by searching out other no-till farmers in your area that are successful with cover crops. Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:00:13 -0500 30413 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30412 We're no-tilling now for about 4 years in SW N.Dakota. Reading about cover crops and learning, yet I'm wondering in an area where our limiting factor is moisture (we're in 6 years of drought) how beneficial are cover crops in our area where we strive to conserve as much water as we can. No irrigation here. Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:19:20 -0500 30412 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30410 The wheat doesn't even look good here, let alone the annual rye. Too cold too wet too long. Ed Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:40:52 -0500 30410 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30409 Ed Thanks for your time . I am located in northern Il just south of Rockford. I planted annual rye grass 1st week in september the fall of 05. The grass that did not winter kill was covered with snow around the field boarders. I really wish it would have worked . I am not opposed to flying on seed if I have a good chance of success . The cost is not a big problem because I know how much good it can do. Thank Cade Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:05:45 -0600 30409 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30408 Maybe annual ryegrass was not the best choice in this situation but I would have thought it would work well! Some varieties seem to winter kill easier than others. Maybe that was your problem. Don't know where you are located but nothing planted here this fall looks good and very little got planted! Ed Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:03:18 -0600 30408 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30407 Ed Thanks for the responce. The annual rye grass I planted was drilled with a JD750 following a crop of corn-silage . It was planted early! I would like to use cover crops to shorten the amount of time it takes to convert a farm from tillage to a no-till (never-till). In strips of annual rye and cerial rye planted on the same date in fall of 05 only the cerial rye did not winter kill. Any outher ideas? I am a never-tiller sence 92 and a no-tiller sence 77. I have made many mistakes allong the way. Anybody with any experience would help me make fewer mistakes . Thanks Cade Mon, 01 Jan 2007 22:08:17 -0600 30407 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30406 Tell us more. This year? Saw some last year. Need to chase the combine to get it established or aerial seed it at leaf drop. Works as well as any cover I have seen but establishment might be an issue. Ed Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:28:16 -0600 30406 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30405 The annual rye grass winter killed. I no-till in northern Il. I am looking for ideas for winter cover crops. In the fall of 06 I planted grain rye. We will see how it works. Any ideas? Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:02:41 -0600 30405 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30403 Here you go, Pat http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLR,GGLR:2006-04,GGLR:en&q=Aroostook+rye+seed+for+salet, If you don't find any, give John Armstrong a call at Ohio Seed Improvement at 614-889-1136 http://www.ohseed.org/ Sat, 09 Sep 2006 08:05:44 -0500 30403 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30402 Looking to buy some certified Aroostock. Anyone have a source? Thanks Thu, 10 Aug 2006 06:56:55 -0500 30402 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30394 Yes Dan and I think the plant simply has more time to translocate the herbicide. We have had good results with Gramoxone in cold temps with little regrowth if the rye is small. I would prefer glyphosate on a warmer day, night time temps above 30 if possible. Another thing we are doing is acidifying the water to at least 5 pH after adding the AMS and before adding the glyphosate. We use a coffee can or 13 oz per 500 gallons or at least 2 ounces of citric acid per 100 gallons. We are getting a good kill with one quart. Ed Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:20:02 -0600 30394 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30393 Annual ryegrass in Southern Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky is over 10" tall and it is time to spray a burndown. However, annual ryegrass North of Indianapolis is only 2-4" tall. It was set back with winter temperatures but it started greening up last week and some warm weather will result in both good top and root growth. Burndown spraying is probably still 2-3 weeks away. Annual ryegrass needs to be sprayed before it reaches the joint stage and remember, glyphosate does not translocate well with cold temperatures. Any one find that with cool temperatures a better burndown occurs if sprayed before 2 pm?? Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:19:08 -0600 30393 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30392 Daniel, If you are referring to high-disturbance shank (tyne) openers to incorporate trifluralin, I would counsel against going down that path. This approach was/is popular in Western Australia and South Australia, although the result has not been reduced ryegrass pressure. Instead, the disturbance 'plants' the ryegrass seeds for future years. A recent issue of WANTFA's newsletter had a very striking photo of this. A more productive approach has been to go to ultra-low disturbance disc openers, and increase the amount of soil cover (with cover crops if necessary). Rolf Derpsch's Situation Analysis (also available thru WANTFA) describes some initial success with this. Herbicides are still necessary, to be sure, but one is not as reliant on them as with a high-disturbance system wherein *all* the ryegrass seeds are planted to the ideal depth for their subsequent germination. I believe a few Australian farmers and researchers are having some success with metolachlor for ryegrass control, which does not require any mechanical incorporation. Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:59:41 -0600 30392 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30391 The warning that Matt has given is a very real and and very very serious problem to deal with. Resistance on our farm here in South Africa has spread over the whole farm of about 2000acres in a matter of three years and came from a neighbouring farmer who had ryegrass interseeded in his alfalfa. Currently we cannot grow any wheat in a paddock that has any significant number of weeds in it.We found out the hard way how costly that can be.We got about 7-15 bushles of wheat instead of 60. There is no in-crop grass herbicide that will kill it, unless you use a pre emergance grass killer like trifluralin which in return require very specific planting equipment which we do not own yet. At this stage we can still kill the ryegrass with paraquad and roundup but not far from us resistance to those two chemicals have being recorded as well. Another noteworthy topic is that the resistance to the Group A chemicals has spread to wild oats and canary seed as well on our farm. On a possitive note I have used with success a new group A chemical called Aramo on resistant ryegrass in Linseed.Hopefully that will stay this way. Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:25:20 -0600 30391 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30396 Iam interested using spring barley as a fall cover crop after soybeans and corn harvest. I would like to get some information about spring barley from someone who used spring barley as a cover crop,the good and bad of it. Eugene Wahling In Western Iowa. Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:57:55 -0600 30396 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30390 I tend to agree with Ed on this. Resistance in ryegrass has to be managed as in any other crop. That is why when burning ryegrass down for corn I use 1.5 qts of Roundup and 1 qt of Atrazine. Have gotten 100% kill. Dave Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:17:52 -0600 30390 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30389 Russ. I am no more concerned with resistance of glyphosate to annual ryegrass to glyphosate than I am to Marestail, Ragweeds, Lambsquarter and many other persistant weeds. I have controlled them in weeds and I do believe we can control them in cover crops. Users have been able to do so thus far. Congrats on your Pa Corn Growers first place entry in 2005. Ed Winkle Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:01:01 -0600 30389 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30388 This is one that really, really concerns me. I am sure that in this case the risk might be much higher than the value. Amount of chemical needed and timing issues for control, have me unwilling to use this one. Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:56:36 -0600 30388 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30387 To backup what Matt H has said here is a link to a Pacific NW site discussing the major problem that annual ryegrass is becoming for wheat growers in Idaho, Oregon and Washington. Especially the no-tillers. http://pnwsteep.wsu.edu/tillagehandbook/chapter5/051800.htm Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:38:07 -0600 30387 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30386 People are already having difficulty in their crops -- again, see the discussion at NewAgTalk http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/CropTalk/index.html (ryegrass thread currently on page 2) Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:59:55 -0600 30386 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30385 i dont know much about much, but on one hand, ryegrass is causing alot of excitement as a miracle cover crop that takes alot of management. on the other hand, its the devil, and we'll rue the day we tried it when it infests our fields (and our neighbors fields) as a chem resistant weed. as i understand it, annual ryegrass has been used in the lawn seeding business for quite some time, and is used in pastures, with no reported problems of it getting into farm fields and becoming a weed. ive also heard that there are some strains that are resistant to glyphosate. its pretty hard to sort thru it all. would latitude or geography have anything to do with it becoming troublesome or not? maybe some of the speakers from the conference could help us, at least theoretically, if they happen to visit this site. thanx. Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:34:48 -0600 30385 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30384 Gregory, Not really. Read my post on New AgTalk (CropTalk). Herbicide-resistance in annual ryegrass is well-documented. This species apparently develops resistance relatively easily. Look how fast other resistance has spread in weed communities -- now you mean to tell me it will somehow be different this time? Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:24:07 -0600 30384 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30383 Matt, your response sounds similar that which the environmentalists are saying about GMO crops. Sun, 15 Jan 2006 12:39:07 -0600 30383 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30382 Realize that with annual ryegrass you are playing with fire. Biotypes of this species are known to be glyphosate resistant. It is only a matter of time before that pollen or seed finds its way into seed production. Or until another mutation event confers resistance. Either way, it will be a nightmare. This isn't idle speculation. This will happen. Beware! Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:45:08 -0600 30382 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30381 I first started using ryegrass in the late summer of 2002. I've had some each year since. I purchase mine from King's Agriseeds here in PA. What I sowed last August is looking great. I even took a cutting of baleage off of it in November. It is now surving as a cover crop for corn this spring. So far I feel that ryegrass may be the best cover crop for me. I have tried barley, wheat, cereal rye and oats in the past. Dave Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:04:42 -0600 30381 http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/forum/Cover-Crops.php#post30380 I wondered if any of you have a stand of annual ryegrass, how is it looking and what is your experience and expectations with it. Looking forward to see Dan and Dan at the NNTC in St. Louis to learn more. Ed Winkle www.erinet.com/hymark Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:49:49 -0600 30380